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Rhea
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9/16/2003
16:38:08
Subject: absence of logic in anti feminism rhetoric
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The entire argument against feminism seems familiar. Is there an advocate of slavery missing his or her essay? This was the same rhetoric used in favor of slavery. The belief that roles (gender or race) are natural is misguided. Gender and race are social contructs. The idea that overthrowing existing social roles will cause choas and disorder is the same fear that kept slavery intact for so long. And its the same fear of allowing women to control their lives rather than being held to societal norms that is antifeminism.
Further more, if feminism means everything and therefore nothing how can one possibly argue against it? If it means everything then what is one arguing against, because surely one can't be against everything. However, if feminism means nothing then why is time being wasted arguing against it? Logic is cleary not a part of the antifeminism argument.
One last note, I was raised by a single mother and I was neither confused or miserable.



Confucianist
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9/17/2003
01:04:53
RE: absence of logic in anti feminism rhetoric
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The entire argument against feminism seems familiar.

The entire argument in support of feminism seems familiar. Just take the democratic priniciples that the Founders gave us and apply them to sex, a feat which was never intended. Then argue that men and women really aren't all that different in nature (the evidence shows this is false) and therefore should not have different roles. Bla, bla, bla...it's always the same argument, and always logically flawed.

Is there an advocate of slavery missing his or her essay?

You mean missing his essay. Your grammar is really bad. You should try harder to correct it.

Gender and race are social contructs.

Actually they are genetic constructs, determined before you are even born. This is not my personal opinion, it is a logical and objective fact.

Logic is cleary not a part of the antifeminism argument.

While personal opinions do make up some of the opposion to the feminist movement, there is a great deal of rational opposition as well:

A study showing the negative effects of child "care" provided by the government amazingly enough: link

An academic analysis of human society from the Chairman of the Department of Sociology at the City University of New York: link

From the American Psychological Association an analysis of the effect of evolution on the brains of males and females: link


jp
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9/26/2003
23:35:54
RE: absence of logic in anti feminism rhetoric
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--start

The entire argument against feminism seems familiar.


The entire argument in support of feminism seems familiar. Just take the democratic priniciples that the Founders gave us and apply them to sex, a feat which was never intended. Then argue that men and women really aren't all that different in nature (the evidence shows this is false) and therefore should not have different roles. Bla, bla, bla...it's always the same argument, and always logically flawed.
--end

You mean "principles". Later on you will say "opposion", but I am sure you mean "opposition". Your use of the term "them" in the second sentence is ambigous - by "them" do you mean "the democratic priniciples(sic)" or "the Founders"?

Also, your reply to Rhea displays a fundamental logical mistake. Your conclusion that the argument for feminism is logically flawed is not supported by the argument you put forth. You claim that the premise is invalid, but do not identify any logical errors.

--start
Is there an advocate of slavery missing his or her essay?

You mean missing his essay. Your grammar is really bad. You should try harder to correct it.
--end

Another common logical mistake is to substitute argumentation for personal attacks. This is known as ad hominem.

--start
Gender and race are social contructs.

Actually they are genetic constructs, determined before you are even born. This is not my personal opinion, it is a logical and objective fact.
--end

Many feminists would distinguish between "Gender" (sociological differences between men and women) and "Sex"(biological differences between men and women). Genetics would determine the later, but not necessarily the former. Lets consider something that is determined after a child is born: assigning the color pink to little girls and blue to little boys. Clearly, this is an arbitrary social construction - why not green and yellow? Feminists may wonder about the impact of this and other social constructions.

Rhea's statement that gender is a social construct implies a different definition of gender then your reply. A "strawman argument" is an example of a logical error where one person "knocks down" a misrepresention of another persons position. This would be your third logical flaw.

--start
Logic is cleary not a part of the antifeminism argument.

While personal opinions do make up some of the opposion to the feminist movement, there is a great deal of rational opposition as well:
--end
--clipped the rest

Advancing notions of complete biological determinism would make you a heretic to the catholic tradition. Additionally, providing random website links without context does not constitute a logical argument, in any sense of the term. While there may be "rational" opposition to feminism, you have failed to demonstrate any such possibility.


ecc
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3/19/2004
05:08:42
RE: absence of logic in anti feminism rhetoric
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wow, anyone can flash around there cool grammar and vocab skills...but THATS NOT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD

if i deside too spelt everythng wrooong it has nuttin to do wit feminism/antifeminsism okei?

as for women, can it be any more obvious? their bodies are simply made for different roles
look at history
look at biology
its obvious, women have their place.

if you dont like the grammar, or the fact i didnt capitalize anything, search on google for "grammar forums" and post about it there, losers. << oh my gosh!! that was "ad hominem"...give me a break.


Reg Csar
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3/21/2004
10:39:16
RE: absence of logic in anti feminism rhetoric
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"Gender and race are social contructs. " --
Rhea

"Actually they are genetic constructs..." --
Confucianist

Gender is not a social construct. It is a
linguistic construct. It does not exist in the
real world. Otherwise, why does a cat change
its gender after crossing the Rhine? There is
no such thing as gender.

Sex is quite real, though.


P 1


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