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Traditionalist Conservatism Forum > Traditionalist Conservatism > American conservatism = religious liberalism? |
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dromedar Registered User (4/30/01 6:28 pm) Reply |
American conservatism = religious liberalism? As a European I´ve got the feeling that many conservatives in the U.S are just "religious libertarians". I have heard many self-described conservatives promotong capitalism and inidvidualism, ideas that grow out of classical liberalism in the 18:th and 19:th centuries. Now the USA was from the beginning bulit on clearly liberal ideas, and I feel that the only differences between many so called "conservatives" and the classical liberals/libertarians are some religius/moral beliefs. But in Europe even many liberals have had clearly religious values; it was not until the "radical-left" entered the political stage in the 60´s and 70´s that European liberalism became clearly "pro-secular". It seems to me that many American conservatives would be considered as classical liberals in Europe, and many liberals in America would be classified as socialists in Europe. So I wonder if there are anyone hwo hold to more classical conservative ideas of the strong hierarcic government and social responsibility? |
JimKalb  ezOP (5/1/01 7:31 am) Reply 
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Re: American conservatism = religious liberalism? The problem is that in America government is in principle antiparticularistic, utilitarian and secular, and the farther up the governmental hierarchy you go the more that way it becomes. I think that's inevitable in a country that began as a federal union among religiously diverse local societies and since then has taken in a lot of immigrants, first from all over Europe and now from all over the world. So it's very difficult for an American conservative to favor a strong hierarchical government. In America such institutions necessarily oppose everything conservatives care about - personal loyalty, cultural particularity, moral and religious tradition, and the like. Here those things exist locally, informally and privately, so anything that reduces the scope of the local, informal and private injures them. Hence the tendency toward libertarianism among American conservatives. Conservatives here don't object to social responsibility, they object to giving it legal and bureaucratic form. I say things are that way in America, but I'm not sure it's so different in Europe now. From what I see it appears that strong hierarchical European governments are more and more becoming strong hierarchical enforcers of multiculturalism and the rest of it. The European tendency toward the centralized state makes the EU especially alarming, I think. Are you sure of what you say about European liberals and secularism? My impression was that anticlericalism was basic to continental liberalism. Jim Kalb |
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Inhocsignovinces Registered User (5/1/01 6:56 pm) Reply |
MayDay: Bush May Extend Illegal Alien Deadline Then we have this spectacle: Hague forces race-dispute MP to make humiliating apology Outspoken Yorkshire Tory MP John Townend was yesterday forced into a humiliating apology after William Hague ordered him to withdraw his controversial “mongrel race” comments or be thrown out of the party. |
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dromedar Registered User (5/3/01 5:15 pm) Reply |
re I can speak mainly for Sweden where I live. When the modern political parties took form around 1900 the conservative had quite colse relationships with the lutheran state church of Sweden. As a result the Liberal Party became some kind of coalition between religious minorities (such as baptists/reformed) and secular elemets. In many European countries (Denmark, Germany, Netherlands, Belgium...) the parties which identifies themselves with a liberal tradition are far more pro-capitalist then the conservative parties. European conservatives usually support a more patriarchal type of society with government setting some regulations and encouraging work, saving, marriage etc. Many European conservatives would say the favor a *welfare society* while the socialists favor a welfare state (and liberals a lesser welfare state) But it certainly true that other European conservatives have been more pro-capitalist and pro-individualist. In Sweden for example the terms "conservative" and "liberal" are often used in a more "American" way. www.moderat.se - Swedish conservatives www.folkpartiet.se - Swedish liberals www.konservative.dk - Danish conservatives www.venstre.dk - Danish liberals |
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JimKalb ezOP (5/3/01 6:11 pm) Reply
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Re: re Well, yes, in Sweden and other European countries you had traditional hierarchical social arrangements with monarchy, aristocracy, state church, and so on, so conservatives tend to favor something that reminds them of that. In America we never had anything of the kind. Here big government with many responsibilities basically means socialism. I do think these differences are lessening though as the Ancien Regime in Europe becomes more and more a distant memory. I had an essay on the nature of American conservatism and its relation to liberalism in the Swedish magazine Contextus a couple of years ago. I think the magazine has folded, certainly their website has disappeared, but the English version of the article is still online. Jim Kalb |
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