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William Wleklinski
Guest
6/14/2002
16:35:19
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 Subject: Catholic Scandals
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Concerning the ongoing scandals within the American Catholic Church:
1. Wouldn't the same factors which have brought the American Church to this point also be at work in Western Europe? Has anyone heard of similar problems there? If not, why not? Does Europe really have better priests and bishops, or are there features of American society that make it more likely that shameful behavior will become public? Could American law, in particular, American tort law, have anything to do with it?
2. It seems to me that reporting and analysis in the mainstream American conservative press (e.g., National Review) has been harsh with respect to the bishops, but in a way designed not to annoy socially liberal, non-Catholic readers. In other words, the story seems to be: the Church, its leaders and clergy are a sordid group, but please don't infer that we have anything censorious to suggest about the present moral state of American society in general. Comments?
WW
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Jim Kalb
Administrator
6/14/2002
21:35:20
| RE: Catholic Scandals
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One difference is that the age of consent is lower in Europe so most of the instances of pederasty that have prompted the scandal here would not be criminal there.
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Jim Kalb
Administrator
6/15/2002
08:52:46
| RE: Catholic Scandals
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Just noticed this. It suggests that differences in tort systems may be relevant:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/story/0,7369,738007,00.html
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Matteo
Guest
6/15/2002
19:58:44
| RE: Catholic Scandals
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I believe one of the best voices in this crisis has been Monsignor Clark, the Rector of St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York. He said nailed the two main causes for the present crisis. The disproportionate numbers of homosexuals in the clergy, as well as the sex-saturated society.
Of course he was blasted by the liberal (or mainstream) media as an unfeeling bigot. Of course, Msgr. Clark is truly a compassionate man, but since he tells the truth, the media makes him into a monster through their slander.
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Jason Eubanks
Guest
6/16/2002
04:32:34
| RE: Catholic Scandals
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As to the first question: I've heard of allegations of this sort concerning the Catholic Church in Poland, Spain, Germany and Sicily on TV and from some of my Catholic friends. The allegations are pretty vague - I can't recall any specifics. Obviously, the Euro press isn't pursuing this story vigorously and I find myself wondering where the rabid pit-bull style secularists and left-wingers are in Europe. They usually pounce on such opportunities. The fact that Western European Christianity is on its death bed may insulate the Catholic Church from scrutiny somewhat. The public schools and media in Eurotopia already teach that people with religious leanings are hypocrites by default, so the present scandal is neither relevant nor shocking.
Secondly, the more prestigious neocons surrendered to the radical sexual liberation shock troops a couple of years ago. They wouldn't dare reneg now. There are a few on the periphery of the Neocon movement that still resist, but most are decrying the inner machinations of the bishops and hand-wringing about Papal sluggishness. That the episcopate of the Catholic church needs to be held to account for their actions, there is little debate. However, very little thought is paid to the culture which produced these bishops and why some of these priests were even ordained (one was reportedly a NAMBLA-type sexual libertinist).
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Jim Kalb
Administrator
6/16/2002
10:15:52
| RE: Catholic Scandals
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Another thought - the US tort system is unusual in offering huge financial payments for nonfinancial damage like getting abused sexually. That affects how much effort people are willing to put into pursuing these claims.
Mahony's Cronies has some interesting background on several notorious cases in California. It's hard to avoid the impression that in the case of the recent scandals ordinary cronyism is made worse by connections that are not at all innocent, and by blackmail.
The bishops collectively still seem mostly intested in damage control. That's why they chose to be harangued by two liberals and some victims - people who they knew wouldn't raise fundamentals about their dereliction of duty but only issues of a kind they've devoted their lives to buying off - insufficient modernization etc. - and particular disciplinary matters. Or such is my interpretation.
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Jim Newland
Guest
6/21/2002
07:09:45
| RE: Catholic Scandals
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In reply to the question "Why America?" the answer to me seems obvious:
America is now, and has been for several years, the worldwide home--Ground Zero--of revolutionary politics. This is because, due to our Constitution, she has historically been the most resistant to change; the toughest nut to crack, as it were, but after decades of propaganda and miseducation aimed at the American people, followed by the depradations of the Clinton era and the abject surrender of our elected officials, she is now weak and vulnerable. Thus, having gotten their foot in the door, the global atheists and tyrannists are putting all of their efforts into bringing America in particular down and into their fold, and a large part of that strategy requires separating the people even further from their history and from their traditional faith.
There's much more going on, of course, but this is essentially the reason that the bulk of the effort is being directed at America. America is weak enough and vulnerable enough that her enemies (both within and without) sense a golden opportunity for victory.
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