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Traditionalist Conservatism Forum > Sex and Gender > Gender issues in Education |
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bb smib Registered User (3/26/02 8:08 pm) Reply |
Gender issues in Education What are the issues? Why do you think boys 'can't' spell, read and write as well as girls? Why is there an emphasis on sport where boys are concerned? Do you think this is because of the gender roles that society has instilled on them as soon as they are born? |
JimKalb  ezOP (3/27/02 10:32 am) Reply 
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Re: Gender issues in Education I think gender roles are a way of accommodating different natural tendencies, of socializing them and making them into something productive and satisfying. Girls and boys are quite different from each other--ask any parent who's dealt with both--and it seems to me the current one-size-fits-all approach that emphasizes the feminine side of things does boys no service. Boys develop more slowly and erratically than girls, and find it harder to be neat and cooperative, follow rules, etc. Educating them is therefore a somewhat different problem from educating girls. I think it's important to find ways to channel and civilize their physical energy and competitiveness. That's the legitimate reason for sports. Jim Kalb |
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bb smib Registered User (4/2/02 10:15 pm) Reply |
Re: Gender issues in Education It also generalizes these different natural tendencies... Why aren't boys pushed into the arts - drama, music, art, as mush as they are sports??? I'm just throwing up questions for discussion really... |
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JimKalb ezOP (4/4/02 7:00 am) Reply
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Re: Gender issues in Education Well, yes, sex roles, like other aspects of human culture, give natural tendencies greater form. The arts are in an odd position today. No-one knows what to do with them. The basic outlook that's accepted is utilitarian and materialistic, and on that view of things the arts are a personal amusement like videogames or whatever. On the other hand they seem to point to something beyond that so people have tried to make them a substitute for religion. I think that attitude's died down, so we're left with the arts as therapy, the arts as protest, the arts as sign of wealth and social status, the arts as something for expert functionaries to worry about for some reason no one else knows about. None of which is very impressive. So what we're really left with is the arts as decorative and not functional, which means the arts as something for girls and not boys. It also means no-one gets pushed into the arts since everyone agrees they don't really matter--unlike sports, which have to do with energy, boldness, initiative, endurance, teamwork and so on they don't seem to relate to anything of much practical consequence. You can take them or leave them. It seems to me coeducation makes things worse, since it associates "girl stuff" all the more firmly with girls and "guy stuff" with guys. After all, both girls and boys are present, and you can see who does what. So I think you'll find a lot more boys pursuing the arts in an all-boys' school and more girls studying physics and mathematics seriously in a girls' school. Jim Kalb |
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bb smib Registered User (4/5/02 11:23 pm) Reply |
Re: Gender issues in Education Not every one agrees that the arts don't matter. I disagree with you (so what's new?). Energy, boldness, initiative, endurance, and teamwork are all part of the arts - I'm speaking more so for Drama, seeing as I have had seven years in this field. Have you ever seen a performance??? Or been part of a troupe??? Drama is VERY 'functional'. Sure, the arts may be used as therapy, or as protest, or even as sign of wealth and social status, but in schools today, you will find it is used to teach and develop COMMUNICATION skills. Something (I'm sure you can't disagree) which is very relevant and important to young people these days, both boys and girls. The fact that you consider therapy and protest, as not relevant or important just shows how close minded you really are I guess, so I can't blame you for thinking the way you do... I guess you'r age also explains why we have such contrasting ideas - the generation gap and all. Anyway, I suggest you look at a Drama Curriculum or Syllabus. I'm not sure how Drama going where you are, but certainly, if you can try to get your hands on an Aussie Drama curriculum... (I'm in Queensland...) The last statement, about how you'll find more boys pursuing the arts in an all-boys' school, was quite funny. Well, duh! They wouldn't have arts in an all boys school if they didn't... I don't know how it works where you are from, but here you need at least 28 students in the class to allow that subject to be taught... Edited by: bb smib  at: 4/6/02 9:27:34 pm |
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JimKalb ezOP (4/6/02 7:49 am) Reply
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Re: Gender issues in Education The conversation has gotten on the wrong footing. I was presenting the attitude toward the arts that I think is implicit in the way people think today and not my own. I think the arts are very important. But then I'm a modern in recovery. I don't think your "communication" view gets to the heart of the matter. A course on public speaking, expository writing, or even good manners would probably help communication much more than one on music theory, Southern Sung landscapes or the works of Samuel Beckett. The problem is that "communication" is just another utilitarian goal that any school administrator can understand. It has its importance but it's not what gives the arts their importance. The ultimate value of the arts, I think, is that they point to things (like the good, beautiful and true) that can't be administered nor reduced to money. For that reason modern ways of thinking can't grasp them as important realities and gives them only a purely personal or decorative significance. Hence the situation I described in my previous post. Girls are more interested in the personal and the decorative than boys so the arts become "girl stuff." Which I think is bad. Jim Kalb |
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Ellen Unregistered User (4/8/02 4:50 pm) Reply |
gender issues I went along with the feminist propaganda I was taught in women's studies classes until I had children. There is no doubt in my mind that society does not inflict gender specific behavior on boys and girls. I think it would be terrific if society/feminism stopped focusing so much on "reforming" children. Most parents I know celebrate the differences between their boys and girls and delight in them both. As far as reading, etc is concerned. Many boys are simply late bloomers in this regard. |
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